---
workshop_number: 4
date: 2026-03-27
title: Beyond MVG Workshop -- Governance Metrics Analysis
video_url: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLZANFS3lbw
youtube_description: |
  First open analysis session on the Beyond MVG governance metrics dashboards.
  The team walked the community through the Miro board (ADA holder, DRep, SPO,
  CC and social/news metric panels, plus an overlaid governance-actions
  timeline) and the new website's per-metric sentiment + rationale flow.

  Discussion topics included:
  - DRep retention problem visible in the Net Change in Active DRep Count
    chart -- bootstrapping versus genuine disengagement
  - Cardano's Gini coefficient (~0.93) compared to large DeFi DAOs (~0.99)
    and to traditional nation-states (~0.63), and what an upward trend means
  - Cross-role concentration: how many DReps are also SPOs / CC members and
    why a per-role chart would better show real concentration of power
  - DRep delegation stickiness: only ~0.14% change rate per epoch, with a
    handful of event-driven spikes -- structural inertia vs conviction
  - Quality of DRep rationales, lack of pluralism, and the tooling gap
    versus how stake pools are chosen (fees, saturation, uptime); mention of
    the Civotas tool for meritocratic DRep selection
  - Whether to focus on reactivating inactive DReps or let them retire and
    instead invest in voter-side tooling and education
  - The 16% ADA participation gap and the role of centralized exchanges as
    custodians of most ADA

  Recorded as part of the Beyond MVG governance metrics workshop series.
attendees:
  - Tevo Kask (host)
  - Gintama
  - Vanessa
  - Maureen
  - Pseudo Scientist
  - Ken Erik
  - Lucas
  - Shaggy
  - Nikil
  - Jama
---

# Workshop #4 Transcript -- Governance Metrics Analysis

## Transcript

### Categories

0:00
to do and then yep, put your name down.
0:03
I'm going to put my name down here and guess your position. You can talk them later after you see uh others also
0:12
putting their name down. And then let's see where the clusters form if at all.
0:18
just a nice ability to see if you're able to access the marboard itself and uh able to play around with it.
0:29
Um yeah today meanwhile where some people are doing that I will go through quickly the agenda board.
0:38
Um at the first glance I will give a quick tour of what is beyond MVG uh what is governance framework um and uh going
0:48
to open up more of this marboard describe what's uh visible and then we right after that if we don't have any
0:56
like clarifying questions we will review the chart that are being open up and then we have like initial reactions and
1:05
scoping for further inspections. So seeing where like we want to bring this discussion and based on people's
1:12
interest here who are in the call we will choose like our target location and dashboards we want to type the printer
1:20
and then I will show you the website uh where we brought the same dashboards in and added some kind of like
1:28
functionality and interactiveness where we can provide sentiment and rationale. Um that exercise is also five minutes.
1:36
Um not everything can be done at that that time. Um but yeah, let's see how far we get. But that also gets into more
1:45
of us into thinking and the rest of the session we will be discussing the the
1:52
the insights and uh outputs we we we recognize in the website itself and what we bring forth.
2:01
Um yeah and in past previous sessions we also went over time. So if some people want to stay uh I have time and maybe
2:10
some team members also have time to continue if we want to.
2:16
Um so yeah I think we're now slightly in the stage where uh welcoming agenda is
2:25
uh is we have reached to that point. I'm going to share the mara link again. Welcome Gintama and Shagra.
2:36
Uh I dropped the marboard link where you can put your name down and uh in this 2D chart to create your own uh based on
2:44
like how experienced you are in Gardona governance and do you prefer like independently doing the governance or collectively?
2:55
Um yeah what is but starting with uh ah yeah are we recording? Uh, it does say
3:03
recording, but is it AI recording or is it actual recording? It's Google meet recording.
3:13
Okay, great.
3:15
Um well today in 24th March me and 13 other
3:23
people here joined in the Cardano framework session or governance framework analysis workshop session
3:31
where we are going to uh well basically as a bond team we got funded from the
3:38
Cardano treasury um to address some of the onchain metrics and pull them up create some standards and uh also listen
3:47
to the community and their like pain points in interacting with the Cardano governance and month ago or maybe now even two
3:56
months ago don't quite remember when um we had this insight workshops where we also took some qualitative insights and
4:04
and meanwhile in the background we were working on like pulling the onchain data and creating the dashboards we have started so now we're in this
4:13
milestone stage where we are putting that analysis together from qualitative and the onchain stuff
4:20
and now we are in the midway. So it's not quite complete yet, but it felt like a good uh place to start to show what we
4:28
have already and include you into this co-creative process of feeling out like what are the metrics saying to us, what
4:35
should we focus on, what are the like strong questions we should answer and uh something that is really like popping out and we need to be aware of.
4:46
Okay, we have this uh workshop here.
4:49
um the governance framework itself and that is um yeah I really just realized I didn't add I don't know do we have a new
4:57
framework yet but based on the milestone do progress report and there should be this um
5:05
report outline and framework documents yeah so these ones re measurement
5:13
framework and metrics manual for those who want to dive deeper into that they they have the tools here. Um
5:22
I wonder if the be link tree is not here. Let's see. And also maybe somebody already noticed that. But in the link
5:30
tree itself um you will find also different surveys that are asynchronously still collecting. And at
5:39
the bottom here there are these context documents the report itself the framework and the finally actually in the last one is beyond MVG GPT that's
5:48
chatpt uh to which is embedded with all of the uh documents that we also have
5:56
there if you just want to have a conversation with the data um for a starting point.
6:02
Now zooming out the motherboard I'm going to unlock this data module site.
6:08
Here we have brought these um pictures of the dashboards. In the governance metrics you will recognize there are four main categories. One is other
6:16
holder metrics. Then is another one is DEP metrics SPO metrics and u where is
6:24
that? Well technically there is one more metric but that's the CC like the constitutional committee metrics.
6:32
Um but because it was missing timeline it didn't uh yeah it didn't make it here. Um I also we created some of like
6:40
social and news a few just something that we noticed in the network that a lot of news or attractions um even some
6:48
of the coin market cap news about brought them here to kind of have and some this is something we can also an
6:55
exercise do it ourselves and come up with like the social events that had in our network when we do governance and
7:03
see has has these activities had any changed the Hey, our like governance metrics changed. Um we also brought put
7:12
in here this um other price chart with um a little bit of the other like token
7:19
allocations and that was uh to compare if like price changes affect our governance and and the current
7:27
observation is like if it does it does it very little and mostly it's more like a social network that is happening there
7:36
and then at the top here there is this governance actions uh timeline and which I brought in with all of these um like
7:44
green sticky notes the main kind of governance actions that took place.
7:48
Sometimes this is like a group of governance actions happening at the same time. And so I put them as a white sticky notes around them and then these
7:56
arrows indicate like specific times when these governance actions are put in for that kind of gives us idea of okay here
8:04
are we start starting to talk about corono constitution to replace the interim constitution then we have
8:12
visioning discussions then we're talking a lot about net change limit then we're getting the ecosystem budgets in then we're doing the treasury withdrawals and
8:21
so basically like thematic way to compare stuff. Then on the left right side made few of these metrics on their
8:31
own. So it's easier to kind of drag and drop between all of us or top of each other. Um and I see we already there has
8:40
been like a lot of overlaps been done and which is also way to find correlations.
8:46
Um so yeah this is for now I will think this is a good starting point a lot of
8:53
information to take in and um I see already few more people joining in so I'm going to share the motherboard again
9:01
and I was thinking that we take like a five minutes or so to just individually go through these graphics check through
9:09
these sticky notes and yeah write down either next to these
9:16
uh places itself your own notes or in the chat um and feel like what kind of
9:23
stands out if you have any clarifying questions now it's a good place to ask and
9:30
and then yeah we can cover that or until that I think maybe 17 18 we
9:39
open up floor for um discussions and like the first insights that we find from these
9:46
Uh these measurements 5 minute or so has passed.

### Net Change in Active DRep Count -- retention problem, bootstrapping vs disengagement

9:58
Um does anybody want to kick off with the first impressions? I see that not many of you reached to the even to the
10:05
bottom but even uh with the amount of time given right now what was the first
10:13
impression from the onchain information and these sticky notes that you have found
10:22
all right I'll save you I got you bro uh
10:30
man from from first up. I can definitely say that uh we got we got a bit of a retention problem with our D-Reps.
10:49
And which chart kind of brings that forth for you the most?
10:55
the active DREP participation net change.
11:03
But do you think this is just because our governance is bootstrapping or this is because uh
11:12
yeah we are like people are getting paid up and just don't want to deal with this anymore.
11:20
I would be remiss to say it's for any one particular reason. I think that this is probably a multitude of factors
11:28
contributing to the decline, if that makes any sense. And you know, we we
11:35
probably should, as Scooby-Doo would say, get to the bottom of this.
11:44
Very cool. And yeah, later I guess we could dive more into this. Um, but
11:51
Kitama, you had your hand up. Do you also want to think what what what you found?

### ADA Price Impact -- price vs governance behavior, budget prudence

11:59
Yeah, I was looking at the price impact the last one.
12:08
So what I noticed is that uh how DEPS viewed the governance action when the
12:15
price was above 50 cents and how the later it has been affecting the decisions.
12:23
Uh so that's something like if we go exactly a year back we were almost at $1. Now we are 70% down.
12:35
So the talks around budgets are way uh more prudent and more conservative than previous year.
12:49
Yeah. One of the observations was that uh like the like a lot of like price
12:56
action started with the net change limit discussions.
13:00
Um but it's yeah compared to I don't know other networks
13:07
here this like small fogy chart at the bottom where this blue line basically is
13:14
showing the deviation from the like rest of the market or blockchain market and
13:22
it is in interesting in a sense that this epoch 555 until 575
13:28
65 and to 75 65 to 75. This is our okay this is actually treasury withdrawal
13:37
section where a lot of uh yeah action is happening and the price is
13:46
yeah slightly going down compared to market but as soon as we finish stuff we are actually performing better than rest
13:53
of the market at some point at that point but then we have a huge down uh guinea coefficient of directs.
14:07
Yeah, it shows that we are uh even though we we are one of the governance
14:14
chain but we have less coefficient than even some UNISAP and some other Dows and I'm not sure why was South Africa taken
14:23
as a base for comparison here.

### Gini Coefficient of Delegated Voting Power -- inequality, cross-role overlap

14:32
I think it'd be good if we talk about the the genie coefficient a little bit and how to kind of understand it. Um a
14:43
genie coefficient of one means there is perfect inequality.
14:49
So this is measuring the equality of voting power in the system. So if we had a one, that would mean that like one
14:58
person has all the voting power. If we have a zero, that means every single voter has the exact same voting power,
15:07
whether there is one of them, whether there's 2,000 of them. And then in the middle is kind of the the everything in
15:17
between. And essentially the Dows, what we see is most other large Dows. Um, so this baseline came from measuring I
15:25
think 10 large um, DeFi Dows. We can I can post the link in once I'm done talking if people want to go see that. Um, are
15:34
sitting at 0.99 and Cardano is sitting at 93 at the end of this measurement period. So that means we have better
15:43
equality on our system than most of the largest Dows in the like web three space. Um it's also something where the number can change for different reasons.
15:55
So we could see our gen coefficient actually increase if we have uh a small
16:02
DREP entering our ecosystem. So that's something that we would consider generally I think to be a positive thing. more dreps are entering even
16:10
small ones but that would force our genie coefficient um and an upwards trend and I think that's our primary um
16:19
analysis of why this is heading in the upwards trend from when we started. Um
16:26
so this one I think takes some careful consideration as to like why is it moving to better understand what it's actually telling us.
16:36
And I found like maybe if there was another metric that how many of the roles correlate like how many dre are
16:44
SPOS and how many SPOS are dre it could give us more proper concentration of power
16:53
for sure. Yeah, even the CC because uh this would give us better like how many people are actually controlling because
17:01
it is just here I feel that the chart are showing each individual as an separate individual uh like in SPO like
17:09
I know like there are so many DFS who are also SPOS's and uh both the ways and also kind of CC members so it is they're also very big uh uh vote swers right?
17:23
Their vote can change how a governance action passes or not. So that metric would be more helpful to better understand the guinea coefficient in its
17:31
totality than just uh say putting it in one uh you know in a governance thing.

### Governance Website Introduction -- sentiment exercise, gamification

17:43
Okay. Well, we have now a bit of looking into the charts, a slight opening and
17:50
based on this opening, I recognized that we are in this DREP section and I'm looking at a little bit of that price
17:58
chart. Now, I would like to reveal the website and let's see if I governance
18:06
features. I'm going to drop this link here.
18:09
Um so this is a bit of like uh while coding action in place because there is option to play around in the motherboard
18:17
itself and there are sticky notes there but thought maybe it's more easier for people to use a website for that you
18:26
don't have to use an account the session key you're using so you can yeah to like start to make accounts by refreshing and
18:35
clearing the browser history. Um, but I assume we are not here to do that and play the game. But instead, what you're
18:43
going to see here is at the top like three panels. We're going to uh let's see how far we get to use. Right now,
18:52
there is uh let's dive into this metric chart part. And there are four tabs here. All of these tabs are showing the same charts we had it in motherboard.
19:04
And now if you open up for example the dremetric section. So let's say we address entire this dmetrics part you
19:11
will find here um like opening questions. Uh what are we like uh looking or what do we want to answer from this chart. You are able to add
19:20
your own questions if you want. And then there are some chart findings uh that our team has put together or somebody if
19:29
you want you can also add your own finding or observation by yeah adding it into the list. Um and then there is a final option here is like three icons.
19:40
All of them are grayed out and the idea is that to to measure that like okay the genie has risen gradually from this amount to this amount. Nevertheless,
19:50
Cardana compares favorably to other large DS. Although the number of hacked dre coefficient still rose and now the
19:58
question is is that good that it goes up or is it bad that it goes up and yeah in our case we want I guess that to go down
20:07
I assume and then yeah so everybody can like these are like different questions and you come with your own perspective
20:15
weird thing. Then there is the sentiment map of like how easy is to change this like oh we want to have a target of 0.8
20:25
kegenic coefficient. Now how do we achieve that is that easy to find or hard to find. So this is the top down and then this the low impact high
20:32
impact. So how much impact it has in your opinion if if the based on like the number it t and that can be addressed in
20:42
a way like okay it's a good marketing opportunity or it's like a technical visibility that we need to achieve and
20:50
yeah and then you basically just use your own in instinct to choose the chart and of course you can add rational why
20:58
you think that and this will help us to qualify this information even further.
21:04
And so happens with every single one of them. And if you don't know, there's a button do I don't know. And that's that's also a valid option. Like the
21:11
middle one or I don't know is something that sometimes people just don't know.
21:16
And that's an also an insight for us. Um and just so for you can go through the different charts and I don't know let's
21:23
give it like a five minutes and see how far we get with that. Um and at the end we will be able to see the
21:32
um like a collective results and if multiple people choose here you can see how we as collective think of it.
21:40
So bit of gamification of yeah this and if anybody has questions or problems uh in the website
21:50
this is the point to ask clarifying questions or help or guidance
21:59
um and meanwhile with this time I also will then take my time to provide this sentiment myself and let's give it
22:07
another five minutes and that's then 1737 we open up another round table starting with Vanessa if she wants.

### Review of Website Summary Results -- collective sentiments on Gini & Nakamoto

22:24
Okay, at least five minute has passed. I'm going to lose my finding.
22:34
The does summary provide us anything? Oh well, there are some stuff happening.
22:41
At least everybody took up the first section and we recognize
22:48
that the gen coefficient um and this um everybody feeling like it's not going
22:57
great and it is something very hard to or not very hard but somewhat hard to address.
23:05
Um okay one is just testing as a rational and
23:13
then we have a bit of genie coefficient information everybody recognize this is bad some recognize it's very bad
23:22
um but again like it's unclear how can we solve it and there are two suggestions this to me shows that new
23:31
entrance to delegation to dps are choosing dps that already have large amount of stake. This will continue
23:38
centralized over time. So already recognizing that this going to have a future impact the more this stays like that.
23:47
And then the most unequal countries in the world have genie coefficient around 6 uh 0.63
23:55
while major Dows routinely score between 97 to 99.
24:01
like percentage and this means the governance is orders of magnitude more unequal than
24:09
traditional political systems revealing structural failure in how blockchain governance has been implemented
24:18
very nicely written insight I have one more here Nakamoto coicient
24:24
one find recognizes it's probably easy I think we need far more people to be able to to feel like it's decentralized like
24:32
100 area right now I guess it's Nakamoto is like 20 or something that's this
24:39
chart here yeah it's yeah depending on the type of governance action um
24:49
um just to add on that table so the nakamoto coefficient uh so how many dups
24:56
is needed to control a governor's acting like if you like all the biggest D reps um they
25:05
gather together and vote but that's absolutely let's say worst case scenario for a governance uh how much um dreps is
25:14
needed to gather together to pass a hard fork or throw out the sitting Cardono
25:22
constitution members in a vote of no confidence or funding uh development of Cardano treasury draw this for example.
25:35
Yeah. And this is why it's also moving in tandem because they have different thresholds when they uh trigger and enacted in part.
25:48
Uh okay.
25:51
And then we have Oh, they are not all one chart. Okay. There are different charts people are going through.
25:59
Um yeah okay all the owner charts I don't does somebody else want to kind of uh stick off their notes or their
26:08
rationals I don't know who has done like other owner stuff or
26:16
or perhaps we continue with the round table where we left off and the entire screen has changed for me so on the left

### DRep Rationales -- quality concerns, pluralism decline, voter focus

26:24
side I I remember Vanessa do you want to share Oh, what do you have seen so far? What
26:32
you have understood? Do you have any questions?
26:36
What you mean in general or about this particular bit that we're looking at?
26:40
Uh, in general for now or yeah, you can choose your general.
26:45
I mean one thing that occurred to me I'm seeing quite a lot of things said in various bits of all this about um direct
26:54
ration and yeah generally they are a good thing but I do think maybe we need to look a bit at the quality of ration
27:02
cuz sometimes I do see dreps giving a rationale that doesn't really make any sense or doesn't really explain their
27:10
thinking at all. It's just for the sake of putting something down. So a rational in itself is not useful unless it
27:18
actually explains your thinking. And I I do see quite often people don't seem to
27:26
understand what that even means to explain your thinking. So you get to logical things or circular arguments or
27:35
whatever. The other thing is just I've seen a few comments about pluralism and I don't think we have any. I mean we
27:44
never have had well in the early days we did have but now I don't see it at all.
27:48
I see increasing convergence. Um and it feels like those who don't align with
27:56
whatever the majority view is are just giving up and going away. Um I see a lot of references to the will of the people
28:05
as if we are one undifferentiated mass and you know in effect we are like you
28:12
don't have any power unless your voice actually aligns with everybody else's and um
28:19
yeah it's just unfortunate that um we're still plutoaucratic and we're still obsessed with majority rules.
28:29
So lit records,

### Social and News -- bare section, expansion & transparency themes

28:33
what have you learned so far with these charts, with these statements um in with the workshop in general? Sure. So I'm
28:43
still digesting a lot of it. I think um a lot of us have mentioned that. Um but what I will say what I've at least
28:50
narrowed my focus in um is just in the socials in the news. So I'm just looking at that. it's a little bare, you know,
29:00
um, you know, what kind of events are we looking for? And I'm kind of looking at that in retrospect to, you know, kind of everything as a whole because, you know,
29:08
we talk about, you know, uh, just having a larger group of people and and just what that means to this ecosystem. So,
29:18
you know, getting more people involved,
29:19
new people, you know, not keeping the same people, uh, you know, like that's that's the thing. I feel like that's been the name of the game is expansion.
29:28
um and transparency. So, uh those uh those are some key points for me.
29:37
Yeah, thank you. And yeah, everybody who feels like they share something uh that is meaningful, had an impact, they found
29:45
the news that was our article, all of that can be put there as a sticky notes and uh preferably with no time frame.
29:54
And then we just have able to kind of do the correlation maps even further.
29:59
Yeah, just a reminder uh for uh I guess only you better actually who join here later we are doing it. Uh it's it's a
30:08
active process that's analysis still is happening. It's just that we open this up a bit to also for community to try provide their insight, understand their
30:17
standing, their observations so that we can know where do we need to address stuff, where we need to get more qualitative information to uh yeah deepen our research.

### DRep Stickiness & Net Change Deep Dive -- 0.14%/epoch, event-driven spikes, Civotas tool

30:29
Min, yeah, I figured I should say something.
30:36
I I noticed that on the Dreb delegation change rate chart there is something
30:42
really interesting there. So the average change rate is only 0.14% per epoch. So
30:51
it means that across the entire epoch of 537 to 69
31:00
uh fewer than two in every 1,000 ST addresses changed at zero in any given epoch. That's interesting. And then there are visible bus events.
31:12
We have sharp spikes around epochs 548, 558,
31:18
573 and 600. It means that delegation changes are event driven rather than
31:27
just continuous. And it it makes uh I saw on the coordination manager you asked the question on the stickiness.
31:37
Uh why do we think that people stick to their dre? So it makes this question
31:43
actually very urgent if people are Oh yeah. So I just that was my
31:51
observation and uh there is also uh uh the uh
31:59
on the so they the change is the average change rate is it positive or concerning? I think at this at this
32:06
level it it's a bit concerning because the number is so low it almost certainly
32:14
cannot be explained by a genuine conviction alone. Just think about the fact that Kadano has been through significant governance events in this
32:22
period. We have budget proposals. We have hards so many controversial votes and even those barely move the needle past 0.3%.
32:33
So the spike events to me are very interesting because it's telling us that delegators can respond. They just almost
32:42
never do. I think this pattern is more consistent with structural inertia rather than the
32:54
I wonder though it does say here let's let's say in the four 400 45 or something it's 40%
33:05
but 40% of what because that would mean that half of entire Gano changed
33:13
delegation address almost half but here it is zero okay so
33:23
it's 0.0 zero score. Okay. Okay. So, I get it. So, it's not Yeah.
33:31
It's decimal points of by 100.
33:38
Yeah. Okay. Then totally maybe one person two people knowing and I guess that's related to this qualitative
33:46
assessments we have regarding the people don't even know how to change the dups.
33:52
with Yoro and wallet. They knew how to delegate automatically, but now they don't know how to change it. But that is a huge factor probably.
34:02
Uh but does that mean we want this to go up a lot and right now it's not good?
34:15
Well, thank you for your feedback. Vanessa, you have a hand up.
34:18
Yeah, I was just like riffing on what you were saying, Moren. I think that's dead interesting. And it makes me wonder
34:26
because I don't feel like I really know how do people choose, you know, why do they choose a particular DREP and why do
34:34
they change if they change? Cuz like you could see it as a positive that you choose a DREAP because you think, yeah, they align with what I believe.
34:44
And if you don't feel the need to change, then that's possibly because they were transparent about who they are and you don't feel that you've had a
34:53
nasty shock as to what they actually stand for and they haven't done things that you didn't expect. But yeah, it may
35:00
not be that. And obviously we've got to look at how easy people find it to change if they want to and whether they
35:08
know how. But I don't think it's actually that difficult or that unclear to know how. So, can we really assume
35:14
that people are not changing because they don't know how or can we assume that it's laziness and inertia like you were saying? Um,
35:24
it is really low, but I don't know that we can assume that much about why cuz my sense is that people choose a DREP
35:33
almost like because they see them, you know, that's almost like my mate. That's somebody that I align with. And almost whatever they do, they'll just go,
35:41
"Yeah, all right. Carry on.
35:44
I think people I I suppose what I'm saying is I don't know if people get or feel that there is any power in changing. It's almost like yeah so
35:53
that's not going to affect anything especially people who are not massive ADA holders. It's like what difference is it going to make if I bugger off to another DRAP?
36:05
You finally find the words.
36:09
Yeah, I've uh finally solved my technical issues. Um, so, um, I don't want to ramble on too long about about
36:18
this, but I mean, it's something that I've been saying for quite a long time with our governance structure. Um, when it comes to looking for DREPs, I think
36:27
we made a pretty significant mistake right off the hop because we basically just went straight into like a governance structure, like an old
36:35
school, we're just going to let you go ahead and basically campaign for votes.
36:42
uh which I think for a blockchain ecosystem is absolutely the wrong approach. So we should have gone with much more of a meritocratic kind of
36:51
approach to DREPs in terms of making voters kind of look at how a DREP actually presented their votes and make
36:59
that the crux of how they choose the voting system. Um I actually recently saw a brand new tool that I've barely
37:07
seen shown to anyone. I think it's called Civotas.
37:12
Um, which actually looks at DREPs through meritocratic metrics to see which one you would like to to look for.
37:21
I think if we had that like right off the beginning, we wouldn't have all these issues because now basically the vast majority of people that I think are
37:29
looking for DREPs basically find somebody they like on social media,
37:32
usually X. They look at someone that they uh are basically like, "Oh, I like the way this person talks," which is
37:40
just basically politics. That's just how things work. And then they go ahead and delegate to them. Um that is a recipe for disaster in a plutoaucratic system,
37:52
right? Because we are in a bureaucratic system. We don't have a choice. That's just how the blockchain operates. So,
37:58
but in that system, you combine that with politics and you're just going to wind up with centralization. There's no way around it. So, I really think the
38:06
push that we need to be doing is around tooling and showing people that there are options out there to quickly and
38:13
efficiently find people that actually are doing the job well, not necessarily people who are out there on social media
38:21
like, you know, blasting messages every day so they can get thousands and thousands of followers because unfortunately that's where we're at.
38:35
Mod.
38:37
Yeah, thank you very much for that. You said most of what I wanted to say and I just uh I would like to add a bit on uh
38:48
what you said is that um I think the fundamental problem is direct selection is a low information decision. So let's
38:57
say you want to get you want to choose a dre what do you have access to you have
39:04
access to a name or a handle and sometimes a bio which is usually short some draps don't even have that and then
39:12
maybe a voting record if the dre has voted and if the if the holder knows how
39:18
to find and interpret it. So um uh when you put all of that together, it's a
39:25
remarkably thin information environment for something as important as choosing a
39:31
zero. So you compare that to how people choose their SPOS's, there are very specific things that you look for. You
39:40
look at uh the fee comparisons, you look at the saturation indicators, you look at the uptime records,
39:48
all of that. and direct selection has almost none of that equivalent scaffolding yet. So I think uh and the
39:56
uh what we know about how people choose is that they trust institutional affiliation proxies. So if I have an if
40:04
I I want to choose a DREP and Kadano Foundation is a DREP I am very likely to
40:13
select Kadano Foundation and it also adds to the well not me but you know it's it adds to the fact that people
40:21
choose who they know like my friend there Okay.
40:43
Uh, yes.
40:47
Yes. Um I have a kind of a broad question and I think well outsider
40:54
question uh is uh the Cardano network uh
41:00
does it have any goal or it's just a process like are are you moving
41:07
somewhere uh towards okay decentralized that's I get this one but uh how can I
41:15
steal something uh that there something changed uh in my life after joining or being part of the system.
41:26
I I can uh I can uh just talk briefly about that. Uh give it uh so we have
41:33
something called u vision 2030. It consists like of a lot of workshops all
41:41
around the world uh in 2025 and there they kind of like put forward like the north star of the direction where the Cardano ecosystem is going.
41:54
Uh so I hope that uh and there are a lot of
42:02
different subcut there is marketing there is like Kama blockchain as a product. So there many different
42:08
categories that they align with. So you might say that let's say there is if there is a request for a treasury
42:16
withdrawal that is totally outside of that northstar direction.
42:23
I would unless this is a very very brilliant idea that nobody thought of it would probably get rejected by the DREPs
42:30
because they have come together and aligned around this direction.
42:45
dropping the exact link here in the chat on that.
42:52
Um I recognize we haven't uh heard from everybody in this call. Pseudo Scientist do you also want to share some of the
43:01
insights of what you learn from dashboards? what kind of boggles your mind or what we need to focus on?

### Gini Coefficient Revisited -- structural critique vs young governance context

43:11
Yes. So um you know I had made the comment earlier about the 63 uh Jenny coefficient that the most
43:20
unequal nation uh has scored and um I think here this is a huge failure in
43:28
governance in itself because if our if our central if we're centralized at the top every decision kind of already
43:36
hasn't been the voice of the community at a large and the fact that So many of our decisions are made now um with you
43:45
know pretty high stakes. This is probably the biggest contributor to why participation has continued to decline.
43:51
I mean, Cardano was engineered from the get-go to restrict dereppp participation and I think this was another huge
44:00
failure right because you know we can talk about rationale we can talk about centralization of drep stickiness and
44:07
everything the biggest idea is that individuals do not have a say it's it's representative governance right and if
44:17
it really doesn't make sense to say that one person wholeheartedly agrees with the single DREP, right? We we have views
44:24
on every single issue and we're kind of forced into making turnary decisions and a lumpsum
44:32
uh delegation to one person hoping that they make the decision that they might.
44:37
And you know, people don't care about rationale. People care did you vote yes,
44:41
no, or did you abstain? And did it align with what I wanted to vote? you know,
44:45
and I think if we had a a mechanism to where individuals were more clearly declaring what their vote was, I think we would see a better uh participation.
44:56
But all of these things contribute to a verifiable metric that individuals do not have a say in this ecosystem. And
45:04
regardless of how we change the rules and the players on the board, um the fact of the matter is reiterating the
45:12
same data. And if we want we if we want to change that there's structural differences that need to be implemented at the protocol level uh in my opinion
45:21
because I mean we could say oh you know uh Ethereum and all these other Dows Maker Dow is.99 and we're n3 like this
45:29
is some kind of badge of honor this is a complete failure of blockchain ideals and altogether if we are worse off by
45:37
magnitudes than the most unfair traditional nation uh what are we actually building towards here and I
45:44
think you know we tend to try to set our side from other ecosystems like Ethereum uh we have oh we're we're peer-reviewed
45:52
and everything but we tend to copy the wrong things from the other ecosystems and you know DAO governance I think we had an opportunity to observe new ways
46:01
of doing things and I think what the numbers tell us is that we have not achieved our desired outcome in forget
46:09
decentralization we have not diversified power structures in a way that is meaningful to individual holders.
46:21
pen. Yeah, I just want to uh comment on that as well as so uh um
46:30
uh in regards to guinea coefficient u uh we are so it's interesting that so in
46:38
Dows you know you have to go and buy a token and you actually have to invest um
46:46
let's say going to it um here you know governance comes out of the box as a natural part of Cardano as an ecosystem.
46:57
And we see that um when even large let's say Dows like uh unis swap uh and
47:07
compound you see a very very low let's say participation rate uh from the
47:13
voting power that if you compare it to uh Cardano and bear in mind we have just
47:20
been going on for a year and we now have like a 100,000 uh stake addresses that is uh let's say
47:30
participating um so in my opinion uh I I must say in hand side that we are very
47:38
young it's a very very young governance um we are we are not that bad but
47:47
uh I I at least from other surveys and what we have found uh I I think it was
47:54
Eli that uh mentioned that um this govern like the biggest barrier for the
48:01
ADA owner to let's said participate uh which is basically what gives governance legitimacy is all the
48:09
toolings that are so fragmented all over the place and definitely not where you are interacting with the blockchain
48:16
which is your wallet. Um uh so there's room for improvement.

### DRep Inactivity -- let them go vs research inactive stake movement

48:23
Um and and also last one observation and that's more like a question to the community. So in the net change inactive
48:32
D account uh count uh you see there is a lot of retirement but there is also a lot of inactive uh DREPs.
48:44
Do you guys think it's hard to get them active again? And what can we do to get inactive dre active again?
48:56
That's my question.
49:00
Do we really care to have D-Reps that are going to go inactive? You know what I'm saying? Like that just doesn't make sense. You know, let them go inactive,
49:09
let them retire, get active participation.
49:16
I wondered here maybe is the question did the inactive people are they redellegating
49:23
or moving their stake around or are these now like stagnating the not used rewards.
49:33
Um okay.
49:37
Yeah. Uh first point you know uh keric I disagree with you on some point when you
49:43
call uh governance is uh young uh for on Cardano. I won't say it is not
49:50
young. It is just it was not focused enough to help it grow fast enough. Uh
49:56
because it is not you know like these problem that we are seeing right now.
50:01
These are things that were already raised previously even during the initial draft of the constitution. These
50:08
have been raised at various points. But again the focus of due to the
50:16
you know power in minimum hands. The focus was never on these particular points. So that there was no action
50:23
taken on them. Now we are doing uh we find this surveys and stuff that the concentration of power and deciding
50:31
power is in very few hands but it has always been raised before and no action was taken in the previous year to
50:39
mitigate this upcoming future it is not like uh it is a growing pain or learning no these were questions raised even
50:47
before it was born into action and second point uh I'm coming on the inactive part right the dre will not be
50:56
active unless they can really attract the delegation to them because they I have seen dre who have been very acting in their voting rationals in the voting
51:05
behavior right in their uh communication also but at the end of the day they're not able to get the volume uh on the
51:15
only platform that you have is that is x where they can voice out their rational because not everyone is looking at the tools onchain data and stuff right
51:23
because it is not easily available on their wallets or on their phone where just one click and they get the data.
51:29
No, that's only X and X is an platform which uh gives more value to people with more followers than something you know
51:37
it's not uh people will look into. So that is one point where if you want to bring inactive people, we need to bring
51:45
those people's rational voting behavior to one click on the wallet where people who have ADA can see it easily instead of looking at X because X will only show
51:54
a few voices amongst the thousands of people talking every day. So the platform communication needs to improve people to really talk to each other
52:02
understand uh how we can move it. So I think that's one thing we need to improve on that is communication on both ways.
52:14
Thanks Jama.
52:19
Um well the I think I'm going to touch on a number of topics that were touched on recently but um overall my my the
52:28
note I wanted to touch on is that I feel like we are doing too much we're focusing too much on like the health of
52:35
the DRAP class on Cardano and not so much on the quality of the voting of uh
52:42
of for example that when you have uh each governance action that happens is an opportunity to have education sharing
52:50
and knowledge grooming in the community about that proposal and out of that um
52:58
we could strengthen um dependencies or like the delegations or things like that but especially trust between people in
53:06
Cardano. So I don't usually subscribe so much to the v the the DREP. I focus on voters. Everyone is a voter. And so when
53:14
um any person that uh owns ADA um has understanding of a governance action. So
53:21
if we raise the average understanding of people people have around topics, it's going to improve the outcome of the
53:28
votings. Um, so that that's one of the main points for me to focus on tooling for voters, not just for DRPs and and to
53:37
engage each de whether it's a delegator or a direct voter or a DREP. Um, they all should be able to have more
53:45
visibility on what has been happening with governance actions. meaning for example um articulating rationale so
53:53
referencing each other's ration and building upon it um disputing it and getting getting clarification on it um
54:01
all that I think signals trust you know and that is something that because it's all uh on chain u we could um start
54:10
modeling and and analyzing so yeah my passion would be to create gov tools that that are with that inspiration with
54:18
that in mind if we have more civic engagement I think overall we would get
54:25
people um participating more in governance you know all all this would would yield more DREPs even and the the
54:33
key PI the KPI they have there is that you know I think in one of your charts you're showing 16% of the ADA is
54:40
participating in governance you know so that's the that's the elephant in the room for me I'm not concerned about the dreps that have gone uh inactive or
54:49
something like that. If they are within these these 15% I I'm worried about the
54:56
other, you know, 85% that haven't been uh brought on board.
55:03
Thanks. Oh, by the way, guys, um I'm assuming you guys are going to end in a bit. Can I drop some links on the chat
55:09
for a call that's starting now? I think CF has started running uh governance calls. So, I'm just going to drop that.
55:17
and one that we are hosting at 45B as well. Yeah, don't you can put the links down. Sure. Thank you.
55:24
And I will include them in Marboard because I think channeling people where the cover discussions happen is an
55:33
important one and a good point on the clock. Um I try to bring it up in chat but we may have go over time and we did
55:42
I didn't still hear from everybody. I don't know. Does Nikil Muarak or Fi do you want to
55:49
uh open your mic and share something from your own experience?
55:59
Sorry, I can't speak I can't speak very much. Can you hear me? Yes, I can.
56:05
Yeah, I can't speak very much cuz I'm currently feeling a bit under the weather. But I love the conversation so far and it's great contribution. And I'm
56:13
going to be going through all the passwords. I've downloaded all the links and saved it. So I'm going to be going through all the passwords so that I can effectively contribute in future meetings. Thank you.
56:25
Thank you too. Thank you for joining.
56:30
Um well with this I think I'm going to then oh before that on the last note what
56:38
Lucas mentioned regarding 50% I think it was yesterday when mentioned and like majority of the ADA is stuck in
56:47
centralized exchanges and they have no way of doing like voting or delegating.
56:53
So is there something of a solution we want to kind of think of in terms of like partnership with like big like
57:01
Kraken or Binance to give them a standard of how they should make a option for choosing the DEPS or is that
57:10
now conflicting against with some of the discussion having here that we don't want more people making more T-Rex
57:18
choices because they get rewards because of that and we need a better mechanism
57:24
to like uplevel the Dups we already have to make them put qualitative like ration assess their quality in some
57:34
sense and have them like go through some kind of either community or a rigorous process before they are in sensor like
57:42
whitel listed to wider their centralized exchanges and or community in general of course it's an open ecosystem people can
57:50
delegate wherever but they're aiming Especially in these like centralized pockets where the big amount of money is sitting.
57:59
Do we want some kind of alignment there in a sense of which team reps get to be chosen or like even be listed?
58:09
Yes, Shaggy.

### Async Feedback Collection -- Miro board, governance website, next steps

58:12
Yeah, I I was wondering where can I put my feedback like my written feedback here? I'm not sure where in the process I was supposed to do that because the
58:21
other side of the myro board never unlocked for me. Um, and then the other link I'm not sure if I was supposed to be answering questions or what, but
58:30
Tabbo, that is not the takeaway I got from this at all. And I would like to be able to provide my takeaways in written form to somebody so that I can say yes,
58:42
I did provide you guys my feedback and that I was heard, right? Because I don't feel like with all of the stuff that's
58:51
been said, people are going to be heard here. You know what I'm saying? If that makes any sense. I would like somewhere I can be sure my input is heard.
59:01
Uh well u as this meeting I will do have work on this and create a meeting summary out of that regarding the
59:10
marboard. Um yeah the left side I was supposed to keep closed. Uh so adding
59:17
yeah I think like the sticky notes on the right side where the dashboard is is uh like where it's needed. What happens here in the left side is basically
59:25
what's happening here on the website itself. So you can also put statement here. There is also the governance
59:33
statements that we didn't get to. Um you can create your own rational or like your own statement and then write it
59:40
there. It's still a bit of like experiment in a sense but I will be looking through this one and keeping
59:47
that open for at least until theation session in milestone 4 and okay so I I for clarification I should
59:56
go over there to the statements section of that link and then create statements is that what you would like
1:00:04
that would be one option yes if you are able to do this it's a bit more technical compared to motherboard if you put sticky note down. But I will be
1:00:13
capturing here invoice in Yeah. and everything that has said before in this call will be recognized.
1:00:20
No, that that's cool with me, Tavo. I appreciate it. I'm going to use that link. I actually like that. I think it looks kind of cool. Uh there there's some cool cool uh thingy videos there.
1:00:29
So, I'll go use that. I appreciate the meeting. Thank you for the call. Thank you for the invitation, y'all. Uh it was great to hear from everybody. Keep it up, y'all.
1:00:40
Yep. And the same goes for everybody else. If you want to give synchronous speed feedback, the marboard will stay open and at some point probably this
1:00:48
citation section will be also opened up totally and not closed at all. Um but yeah, it's all of the work that Bayon is doing. We are doing it at the like the
1:00:57
same time and now we just included you all into this kind of thinking and opportunities so that we make sure that
1:01:04
don't miss uh important concerns and we see that we yeah we doing the right thing and yeah the the website back end
1:01:13
is like just a way a structured way to also assess and then uh qualify our statements of what each individual says.
1:01:25
Um but yeah, in general this page itself probably at some point will be consolidated into a report and removed
1:01:33
or maybe separated out into a different tool all together because technically it's a coordination manager not the Cardano governance dashboard.
1:01:45
Um yeah again thanks from me for joining giving your feedback. I have finished this
1:01:52
workshop. Somebody else wants to take final notes, say something, provide feedback on the workshop itself, the tools themselves. This is perfect time
1:02:01
to share it. Meanwhile, I will quietly watch you how you either leave or give you feedback.
1:02:10
I got Thank you everybody. You guys, thanks everybody.
1:02:19
Thank you, T and everyone. Guys, uh, is Vanessa still here?
1:02:25
Oh, she's gone. Okay.